Saturday, March 23, 2013

Gay Marriage & More Discussions

Just finished off some productive discussion at What's Wrong with the World on this general topic. A fair amount of pushback, though a lot of that seemed to stem from my habit of getting into it with one or two of the resident admins. Found some very promising news about the gay marriage debate in France, and it gave me an opportunity to generally hone my thoughts on the subject. For once I wish I knew someone reliable in France so I could get a better sense of the lay of the land there on these topics.

Saturday, March 9, 2013

Steve Hays of Triablogue, doing his unwitting best to legalize gay marriage in your town

Well, I've finally managed to be on the receiving end of censorship over at Triablogue. How'd I manage it? By backing Steve into a corner over social conservatives' approach to gay marriage and gay issues generally.  Steve complained that I was taking up too much of his time (you know, by responding to him, and refusing to take his Catholic-baiting), so, you know - he just had to start trashing my posts.

Now, Steve can run his blog any way he likes. I certainly rule my meager slice of the internet here with an iron fist. On the other hand, I make sure everyone knows that. Triablogue, meanwhile, pulls a Jerry Coyne - you can post there, until you back Steve or someone else into a corner with an argument, or they feel they're doing poorly. At that point, it's time to leave. And if you can't be provoked into giving them a reason (say, you keep ignoring their Catholic-bashing bait), they'll just quietly get rid of you.

For now, I'll just post my reply to Steve here for reference. And I'll add this: Steve, and guys like Steve, are part of the reason social conservatives are doing dismally on these issues. I oppose gay marriage. Hell, at this point I'm intellectually hostile to civil unions. But I also recognize that gays are people, that their being gay does not and most importantly should not define who they are, and that Christians have to make a conscious effort not only to convince gays with our religious, philosophical, metaphysical and even secular arguments against various sexual behaviors and abuses of marriage, but also to make a place for them in the Christian community. I recognize that Christians have to be consistent in their message, and on this point consistency is going to mean criticism of sodomy and abuses of marriage generally - which applies to heterosexuals as well, especially nowadays.

But the short of it is: if you want to thank someone for the success of LGBT groups, you don't only have to thank liberal gay marriage supporters. You also have to thank social conservatives who do not learn from their failures or their mistakes, who do not change their approach when their approach is a proven failure, who refuse to learn lessons, and who generally think being obnoxious and belligerent is a good way to conduct what social, cultural and political fights.

In other words, liberal gays owe a lot to guys like Steve Hays.

Saturday, March 2, 2013

What a surprise

Dawkins turns out to be not just a liar, but an incredible pussy.

Does anyone really believe that Dawkins is just plain unfamiliar with the God of Islam? Better yet, unwilling to comment loudly about that which he does not have much familiarity with?

The William Lane Craig debate-ducking was hilarious enough, and to this day you can still find Cultists of Gnu willing to go to the wall for Dawkins on that. Will they also admit that Dawkins doesn't really know all that much about the God of Islam and he's incapable of commenting on either the existence or character of said God?

Probably a few will. Which just goes to show, you don't need to be a theist to have a cult of personality. Hell, you don't even need a leader with a particularly good personality.