Tuesday, May 31, 2016

Christians should not guard atheist materialists against nihilism

Christians often let, or even encourage, materialist atheists to fall back to a kind of meaningful moral realism. A kind of 'You may not believe in God, but surely you believe in goodness, right? Charity? Kindness? Doing good, improving the world?' compromise. I think there's a number of motivations here - a belief that that inner conviction of 'goodness' may lead atheists back to God, a general hope that an atheist will at least still do pragmatic and beneficial things. Plus, the general unwillingness to assert that a convinced and willing atheist cannot really be doing 'good' from their own perspective, given how rude and unpopular that view is.

My view: letting a materialist atheist pretend that they can still talk meaningfully about 'good' and 'evil' is likely to do more harm than good, from the Christian perspective. It's encouraging people to be zealous with no real anchor - hence, SJWs.

Let me be clear here: I'm talking about materialist atheists. I don't believe agnostics, or the merely irreligious are in this boat. But once someone talks about how the natural/material world is all that exists, etc, acting like their logic-pretzels of trying to pretend they can pull 'rights' out of their ass and that this means something has to end.

4 comments:

B. Prokop said...

I wonder how many strict materialists there are out in the Real World. I've never met one ever, other than on the internet. You can find them there, for sure. But face to face? Not one.

Agnostics, "apatheists", the clearly muddle headed, and people mad at the Church or their parents? Plenty of them.

Son of Ya'Kov said...

>letting a materialist atheist pretend...

Crude an Atheist materialist has free will(even if he doubts it). We don't let him do anything.

Since Theistic Personalism sucks more than anything that has ever sucked before we know God is NOT a being who happens to be maximally good but rather given the dogma of the Divine Simplicity God is Goodness Itself. So turning an Atheist toward the good by definition turns him to God.

We don't do anything with the Atheist. Divine Grace must play the role in moving His or Her will to a saving act of faith. Bringing them as close as you can therefore is desirable.
You can do no more then that.

Crude said...

Since Theistic Personalism sucks more than anything that has ever sucked before

I disagree, strongly.

So turning an Atheist toward the good by definition turns him to God.

And lies are greater affronts to God than murder on classical theism. While what counts as a 'lie' gets up in the air, I await the Thomist who endorses the kind of deception you're discussing.

It's one thing to turn an atheist towards God. It's another to basically bullshit them into believing atheism, particularly a materialist atheism, has a meaningful place for 'good'. A muslim may be worshiping God in their own, indirect way, but that's no excuse to pretend everything is well there, or that the Koran is, in fact, blessed.

Son of Ya'Kov said...

>I disagree, strongly.

I was being dramatic. You know how I love to bash Theistic Personalism.

Thought it was obvious?


>And lies are greater affronts to God than murder on classical theism. While what counts as a 'lie' gets up in the air, I await the Thomist who endorses the kind of deception you're discussing.

Lies are a greater affront then murder to Classic Theism? Since when? Deception is to go out of one's way to directly or indirectly mislead people. Encouraging people to embrace good is neither deception nor anything close.

>It's one thing to turn an atheist towards God. It's another to basically bullshit them into believing atheism, particularly a materialist atheism, has a meaningful place for 'good'. A muslim may be worshiping God in their own, indirect way, but that's no excuse to pretend everything is well there, or that the Koran is, in fact, blessed.

Logically everything short of embracing Catholicism is not good. Encouraging an Atheist to embrace the good is not synonymous with saying Atheism is good. Encouraging atheists to be ethical or Muslims to follow the views of a civilized Italian Imam is to make them pursue what is better. It's doesn't logically follow thus they may never or if the opportunity presents itself embrace the best which is the fullness of truth in the Church.

Like I've said elsewhere in essence Islam is no better than the Amish anabaptist religion. Both are wrong in so much neither is Catholicism. But of the two I just mentioned one is more wrong then the other.