Sunday, May 1, 2016

Trumps Success Among Christians?

When Christian "leaders" bitterly complain about the success Trump is having among Christians, they should ask themselves what role they played in preparing for it. Admonitions that Trump's behavior is antithetical to Christian teaching comes hot on the heels of a systematic denunciation of Christian teaching and history - by Christian leaders themselves. Christian history is treated, by both Popes and protestants, as a big temporal embarrassment in dire need of apologies to anyone who will listen. Even conservative apologists deal sidestep Christian history altogether rather than defend it. Praise is reserved for people who have questioned or changed Christian teaching, the more modern, the better.

As Christian history is treated, so too is American history. Then along comes someone who decides, to hell with it - they're saying America is a fantastic place with a great history, one we have every right to be proud of and defend. Not because we can, with even more sacrifice, bleed ourselves to solve the problems of people halfway across the world (and who, incidentally, hate us.) But so we take care of ourselves and solve our own problems and even maintain our own culture. As we are justified in doing.

Why in the world would someone like that be popular? Who would ever support someone who tells them that they should be proud of the history of the institutions they identify with, rather than be perpetually and wholly ashamed of them?

It is a mystery.

5 comments:

B. Prokop said...

Well, I am a Christian, and I cannot understand how anyone who takes his faith seriously can support a man who brags about his serial adulteries (in the crudest of possible language), has divorced multiple times, has taken every position on the map about abortion, has spoken in favor of allowing men to use women's bathrooms, has insulted the Holy Eucharist, thinks he has no need of God's forgiveness for anything he's ever done, has demonstrated his scriptural illiteracy, does not regularly attend religious services of any sort, has built his fortune around selling sin (e.g., gambling), and most likely chalks up all 7 deadly sins before breakfast each day (especially pride and greed).

After a list like that (which no one - not even his staunchest supporters, denies is accurate), how can his statements (and that's all they are - there's no record of his actually doing anything about them) possibly tip the scales in his favor?

Crude said...

For those of you who like comedy, imagine Bob saying all that while standing in front of his 'HOPE AND CHANGE' Obama posters from 2008 and 2012, and wearing his 'Sanders 2016!' gear. ;)

B. Prokop said...

I predicted that's how you would respond. You have no answer to what I wrote, do you?

Crude said...

I've already gone over most of this with you before - contrary to what you say, I've noted that your list is in fact inaccurate. He didn't insult the Eucharist (that stuff dispensed by methodists is not the Eucharist), etc.

Beyond that? Frankly, my response is sufficient. Moreover, I just don't care. We've played this game over and over; you ignore your own contradictions. You ignore my corrections of your mistakes. To all this you reply, 'No u!!!' There is no discussion to be had with you on this; just noise. (Here it comes: 'No u!!!')

Red bad, blue good. Trump not attending Church? Disqualifying. Atheist secular jew? Quite acceptable. Men in women's restrooms? Horrific, a deal breaker. Forcing nuns to fund abortion and contraception, and bakers to service same-sex weddings? Render unto Caesar!

Blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda. It buys me little to engage this anymore. Others can do it if they have the time or wish to practice.

Me? I have work to do, and a MAGA hat to buy.

Mr. Green said...

B. Prokop: has divorced multiple times

OK, but how is this different from any other politician?

has spoken in favor of allowing men to use women's bathrooms

OK, but how is this different from any other politician?

his statements (and that's all they are - there's no record of his actually doing anything about them)

OK, but how is this different from any other politician?

thinks he has no need of God's forgiveness for anything he's ever done

OK, but how is this different from every other politician?

has taken every position on the map about abortion

How many positions are there? For, against, and... waffling? See, this is one of the few areas where I have sympathy for politicians — if they change their minds, they're wishy-washy, and if they don't, they're pig-headed. But if you were wrong about something, then it's good to change your mind. My understanding is that Trump used to be for abortion to whatever extent, but then he talked to doctors about it and is now opposed it — that's a good thing. Especially since it doesn't seem to be a merely politically-motivated decision (but I don't know the details; if you do, please inform me!). Frankly, the baby-killing movement relies hugely on people's being stupidly ignorant of the medical and biological details, so I'm inclined to give anyone the benefit of the doubt who comes to disown abortion because of learning more about it; but as I said, if you have any information to the contrary, I'd like to hear it.

has insulted the Holy Eucharist

I don't see how Crude is wrong on this: Trump isn't Catholic or Orthodox, or even high-church Lutheran or Anglican. What exactly are you referring to in which Trump said anything at all about the actual Eucharist — as opposed to a Protestant communion service?

has demonstrated his scriptural illiteracy
does not regularly attend religious services of any sort


OK, but how is this different from (m)any other Christians? (Or, perhaps, self-described Christian, but there are plenty of sincere Christians who don't know much about Scripture, and maybe even who don't go to church much.)

I cannot understand how anyone who takes his faith seriously can support a man who brags about his serial adulteries (in the crudest of possible language), [...]
[how can this] possibly tip the scales in his favor?


That is different from other politicians — they commit adultery and then lie about it. As I said in another post here, that's not really something for the rest of them to brag about.

My points here are quite serious: I'm not impressed by Trump's [lack of] character — but then, I'm not impressed by politicians' lack of character in general, and I find it hard to believe that people who are so shocked — shocked, I say! — by Trump (fetch the smelling salts!!) are naive enough to think that before he came along the political slate consisted of righteous men of virtue. So I really don't understand where you are going with all this: do you honestly think that most other politicians have upright characters? Or do you think that Trump is merely the worst of several evils? Or maybe he's not even the worst, but he's not the least evil? Or are you giving up on democracy and refusing to compromise yourself morally by voting at all? (Long live the monarchy!!)


and most likely chalks up all 7 deadly sins before breakfast each day (especially pride and greed).

OK, but how is this different from any other human being?