Friday, June 3, 2016

Hell is other Christians

Mr. Green, a great commenter, recently suggested that he doesn't think Trump's rise is going to help much of anything in America, as it does nothing to reverse the West's (and America in particular's) key problem: the loss of Christianity.

You may think I'd be sympathetic to that. After all, I'm on record as really disliking New Atheists. Certainly SJWs, who are typically but not exclusively anti-Christian in orientation. The problem is, I'm also not a fan of Episcopalians, Quakers, Universalists, the UCC and others. In fact, there's a good number of Catholic clergy who I regard as instrumental in the decline of the West.

The West has decayed on Christianity's watch, ladies and gentlemen. Some of us fought against it, but some of us aided and abetted it. I think more fought than aided, numerically. But just as I don't exonerate atheists for communism's rise, I'm not about to turn a blind eye to the Church's role in illegal immigration, the existence of dissident Catholics, and more.

I am afraid the rot in the West goes beyond Christian faith. And I have some hope that what Trump offers will, in fact, help return that faith. Christianity didn't cause this, but I believe the rot we're talking about can't be solved by some bumper crop of Anglican clergy. What ails us requires something more, because there's more ways to be sick than to lack Christ, certainly in name.

I don't think Trump is to the Church what Aristotle was to it. That's silly. Not even Charlemagne - he's too detached, too vague. But he may be something Charlemagne-like, and that is what we need right now - on a number of levels.


B. Prokop said...

Crude, I have to agree with you here. My favorite example of the Rot From Within is the past century and a half of so-called Biblical Criticism by Christian Scholars themselves. The contemporary skepticism over who wrote the New Testament and when it was written must be laid at the feet of, not atheist scoffers, but "mainstream" Catholic and Protestant academics, falling over themselves to assure their readers that they, at least, were not as gullible as Saints Jerome, Augustine, or Thomas Aquinas, and could not possibly believe, for instance, that Mark was written by someone named Mark - etc.

I cringe every time I am at Mass and hear the readings from the New American Bible - one of the worst offenders. How this heretical assemblage of agnosticism and downright unbelief maintains its status as the "official" liturgical translation of the scriptures is beyond me. Especially since there are far superior translations available, such as the Ignatius RSV/CE, which have the full blessing of the Catholic Church.

Son of Ya'Kov said...

I regard politics and political ideology the way a man might regard a mistress(not that I have personal experience with having a mistress). Basically she is whore you use to get what your want or need at the time and you feel dirty afterwards. That is how I see the conservative political movement. I see religion and the Church more like I might see my wife. Lofty and blessed and worthy of my infinite respect.

Trump exists to stop as much as possible the mission creep of the SJW and other leftists who are waging war on my freedom to be a Catholic. Nothing more. Also at best under him I won't be taxed to death and might make a good living.

But I have no delusions of higher expectations then that. if our civilization falls the Church will be there to pick up the pieces because when the corrupt society goes down the drain the worldly elements will go with it. What is left will be much better.

Then as with all history rinse repeat. Nothing new under the sun.

GoldRush Apple said...

>>I'm also not a fan of Episcopalians, Quakers, Universalists, the UCC and others.

After several weeks of trying to understand the makeup of Protestant denominations I'm sorta of left with little enthusiasm. I get confused sometimes. What makes one become a 7th Day Adventist versus a Baptist or a Presbyterian? How about UCC v Univesalists?

I will shamefully admit that I understand Greek life and different fraternities better than I do the Protestant branch when it comes to denominations. But then again, it might help me understand it if I look at it from a fraternity stand point.

Crude said...

You could file my problems under 'liberal Christians' across the board, whose attitude towards Christ and God seems to range from 'Let's not talk about that' to 'Sure I believe in both. How, you ask? Let's not talk about that.'

Mr. Green said...

Thanks, Crude. Certainly it isn't so much the explicit or official lack of Christianity that is the problem, although it is a symptom of it. It's the lack of orthodox Christianity that built Western civilisation, and many nominally Christian groups are part of the problem. In a curious way, Christianity is almost a victim of its own success — it made possible the very society where people can get away with the attitudes and actions that now attack it. (Consider that all this social-justice stuff is a take-off of Christianity, an attempt to have Christian "niceness" with the pesky rules... or by now, a parody of it — the Christian teaching not to hate the person because of the sin got flipped around to not hating the sin because of the person.)

As Bob says, this is "mainstream" — the problem didn't start in twenty-first century, or the twentieth, or even with the Enlightenment. It's been going on for centuries, though of course it took time to build to this extent, and Christians can't escape responsibility: since the Church was once the shaping influence in the West, it was the only thing in a position to counter or squander its own influence. Hence JP2's "new evangelisation" — it seems a point was reached where the thinking was, well, everybody's Christian now, time to do something else.

If I understand you right about more ways of being sick, it's not "just Christianity" in the sense that even a virtuous pagan society wouldn't have some of the problems that we do, and I'd agree to that. Not only do we fail to live up to a Christian standard, but we're failing in terms of natural law, natural society. Now, if Trump were, say, vowing to build a wall around the Dept. of Education and put parents in charge of their children's schooling, I might get excited. But even accounting for some good effects (which there will still be even if he loses), I wonder if it will amount to more than temporarily relieving some of the symptoms. Perhaps it comes back to the point you've made before about raising morale, which is a prerequisite for further action. But I'll really be watching to see what happens the election after this one.

Lucretius said...

This bothers me too.

However, I prefer the Knox translation, because it sounds like it was written by an English gentleman. We need to teach modern people true beauty somewhere (modern church architecture isn't working).

Oh, I miss ├że good olde days!

Christi pax,


Lucretius said...

This was Satan's plan all along! He made the forces of the world promote Christ so that people would follow Christ for the wrong reasons, the wrong intentions! Then, he pulls a fast one and changes suddenly what the world promotes to instill confusion in the church. I hate him, but he's certainly clever >:-(

Christi pax,