Friday, June 24, 2016

So apparently no one should outvote people aged 18-30?

The latest reaction to the Brexit results are 'How dare anyone vote against the young's wishes! They have more time left, they should be the ones to determine their future!' This is the sort of thing that makes me wonder if all those people who hate millenials aren't actually on to something.

For one thing, considering the UK joined the EU in 1973, it's clear that a lot of these old UK fogeys are the ones who initially guided the UK into the entanglement to begin with, and then spent the better part of their lives working under and with it. It seems to me that alone would at least give this class of people some license to decide whether or not it deserves their continued esteem.

For another, really - if someone is that enamored with the EU? They are free to go become part of it. As many a burqa demonstrates, and as they've announced to the world repeatedly - they take refugees. In fact they take anyone. Want to be part of the EU? Get on a ferry or a plane or start swimming. You're young, remember? Pick up and move. The old people are more chained to where they are.

Really, though, the whole line of argument is absurd, and the fact that it's being touted as a legitimate criticism just tells me that the world is just about done with this 'democracy' thing. Though there is some kind of grim humor in watching the Social Justice Warrior demographic bitching like crazy because the elderly, the poor and the uneducated all get the same vote that they do, which is like, totally unfair. And people wonder why I reject the idea that SJWs are well-meaning but naive people as opposed to, by and large, a bunch of shits.

9 comments:

malcolmthecynic said...

Hmmmm. You may not be referring to me, but perhaps I've given the wrong impression.

My contention is twofold:

1) SJW's and other what-America-calls-leftists aren't necessarily stupid, naive, or anything, just very, very wrong. I think people underestimate just how wrong very intelligent people can be, or the capacity of the human mind to believe bullshit.

2) I question whether or not what-America-calls-right-wingers are really so much wiser. Sure, I'd rather be living under the alt right than what currently passes for conservative in America; I don't believe there's no such thing as "Better" or "Worse" here, not the least of which because the result is the fall of the West to muslims.

My claim is that even the alt right has the basic, underlying principles behind government fundamentally, hugely, even shockingly wrong. Once the regime changes things will be better, I think, and that's good - but it's not enough. Unless we reject liberalism totally, we won't be clear of the muck. We just spin our tires.

In other words - we're just as wrong about the underlying principles, and many times - see the current "conservative" establishment - even make the same mistakes when push comes to shove and something we really want is up for grabs. I don't think that people - which used to include myself, and probably still does on various things - who are wrong here are stupid - just extremely wrong.

The foundation of western society was not liberalism, but Christendom - and until we understand that, we're going to continue to make the same mistakes. And we'll probably never understand that.

Crude said...

Hmmmm. You may not be referring to me, but perhaps I've given the wrong impression.

No, no. I didn't have you in mind whatsoever here, and I'd never do something so catty as the 'SOME people say, and by some I mean this guy' routine.

What you contend is actually a more complicated question. I don't believe 'All SJWs are stupid' or 'All SJWs are wicked'. People vary.

Crude said...

Let me hone the claim I'm making at the end of the OP.

What we have here are people bitching that the old (lol they're dying soon), the less educated (lol they're trash), and - of all things - the poor (lol they're out of work) dared to vote against their betters. It's a popular sentiment with many on the left right now.

I never speak in absolutes about large groups of people, because I know motivations vary. But for a group of people that loves to squeal about equality and fairness and how they represent the poor and disadvantaged, the criticism they have here runs so contrary to even their own standard appeals that it's downright comedic. 'They' isn't absolute. But it's a sizable amount.

GoldRush Apple said...

I kid you f_cking not, I was in a discussion where one party said high school and college students should be the leaders of issues like global warming and creating a new economics system. This of course edged me to solidify my observation that modernism has some sort of fetish/love affair with the youth.

Crude said...

This of course edged me to solidify my observation that modernism has some sort of fetish/love affair with the youth.

They love anyone who's stupid and prone to listening to them. The great thing about many young people - they parrot things.

Stewart Griffin said...

If they leave before the UK officially exits, which will only happen after a negotiation of at least two years, that has not even started yet, then they should be allowed to stay in their new EU home under the existing free movement rules (Vienna convention grand fathering). I believe, but have not checked, that Belgium has a three year path to citizenship for non-national residents. Many people in the UK are entitled to an Irish passport anyway. Really, if they want to stay in the EU it could not be much easier.

Of course, its not enough that they should be able to stay in it. They want to be able to force everyone else into it, because young and therefore right.

the criticism they have here runs so contrary to even their own standard appeals that it's downright comedic.

Yeah, completely. One hope is that this referendum will have opened the eyes of the tribal voters who always go for the blue or red ribbon without caring that both ribbons are worn by people who hate them, think them stupid and have more in common with each other than any of them.

Jakeithus said...

Worst comment I saw was someone on Twitter saying "I have a problem with referendums. I don't think 51% of the population should be deciding things for the rest of us", but really what she has a problem with is democracy. The alternative in this case would've been 49% deciding things for the rest. Not sure she realized that.

The worst part is she appeared to hold a position of some prominence at a public policy think tank. She reminded me of all the educated but ignorant people I met studying PoliSci.

Don't get me wrong, requiring Supermajorities for government decisions would probably be pretty great. Government would be unable to intrude themselves in your life as very little could be passed; it would be a conservative dream. Of course the lady on Twitter wasn't thinking of that when she made her comments either, I suspect her thought process was nothing more than "democracy for me but not for thee".

In general it's a great example of the leftist elites thinking; why don't you old, white people who won't do what you are told die already and be replaced by the young, ignorant, propaganda victims and 3rd world refugees who will listen to whatever their betters tell them.

Crude said...

Stewart,

Of course, its not enough that they should be able to stay in it. They want to be able to force everyone else into it, because young and therefore right.

I wonder, for how many people, the real cause to anger here isn't the glory of the EU, of globalism, or even of liberalism. Just the fury of having been denied something they wanted, period.

Jake,

In general it's a great example of the leftist elites thinking; why don't you old, white people who won't do what you are told die already and be replaced by the young, ignorant, propaganda victims and 3rd world refugees who will listen to whatever their betters tell them.

I think the hope and dream is that said refugees shall do as they're told by their very white, liberal betters. And I think the reality is a lot more funny.

Mr. Green said...

Malcolm: The foundation of western society was not liberalism, but Christendom - and until we understand that, we're going to continue to make the same mistakes. And we'll probably never understand that.

Yes… "conservatism" is less an opposition to modernism and more the flip-side of the modernist coin. And lots of people will agree that Christianity is the foundation, but unfortunately there are many — and this includes everyone from "social justice" Christians to SSPX-type "traditionalists" — who try to fit their understanding of Christianity into a modern framework instead of the other way around.