Thursday, June 23, 2016

Why do I express open contempt for some of the Pope's actions lately?

The answer actually has less to do with the Pope and more to do with everyone else.

It's one thing for the Pope to mistake mistakes, or to undermine the Church's teaching role, or play politics, or various other things. Shit happens, and so do shitty popes.

But it's another thing when every criticism of the Pope - including, in my view, entirely fair ones - is answered by would-be papal defenders with a guffaw, an insult, a lecture, and more than a little gaslighting. My response to that kind of thing is to generally make my points louder, more often, and usually with greater insult. Not necessarily the best response, but I'm aware of my habits.

I do not like the thought of long-suffering Catholics not only finding themselves having to deal with the insult of a worldly Pope, but also of having no recourse for discussing their worries, lest some shitheel of a Mark Shea wannabe nag them to death for -daring- to suggest that there may be a problem with the Pope heaping praise on atheistic communists who give him kitschy hammer-and-sickle crucifix art. If they won't receive better from their own bishops and the Pope, at least they should find a good will gesture on the part of people who should be more intellectually sympathetic.

Alas, for many, it is not to be. Why? Who knows, and I won't speculate. Suffice to say I find it rotten, and I do so as someone who tried mightily to give this Pope the benefit of the doubt. Even now, I try to give his actions and words a fair hearing. It is not my fault that he and his allies are too blatant in their actions.

8 comments:

Son of Ya'Kov said...

Mark Shea?


Sounds like a reverse Mark Shea whining over the Pope turning down 'right wing" politician Macri's insulting 666 "donation".

Why did the government offer money with the number 666 in it anyway if not to openly mock the Pope?


"Macri announced his personal support for same-sex marriage and adoption for LGBT couples, and outlined plans to pursue the issue in early 2009. "The world is going in this direction. We have to live with and accept this reality. I hope they are happy," said Macri when he decided to not appeal the ruling that enabled a couple of two men to marry civilly."

So he is "right wing" and openly supports gay marriage and gay adoption? Two issues which Pope Francis fought against as a Cardinal Archbishop & called the work of the Devil. This Devish politician then insults the Pope by giving a donation with the number 666 in it!

You left that bit out Crude. I know this post won't see the light of day. But you will see it. Also funny you bring up Mark Shea. He like you shuts down debate when it becomes too hot for him and he can no longer answer his critics.
I know I was there during the torture debate.



Son of Ya'Kov said...

So I am back? How long before you cut me off again in mid argument or tell me to go fuck myself?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2016/06/confusing-pope-francis-prudent-public-discussion.html

Crude said...

Sounds like a reverse Mark Shea whining over the Pope turning down 'right wing" politician Macri's insulting 666 "donation".

Yeah, sure. Because as we all know, 16,666,000 pesos, aka 1.2 mill, is the number of the fucking beast. And that's absolutely legit when it's a 'quote from a Vatican insider', who you place so much stock in. Forget that the same 'insiders' also said outright this was because the Pope hates this guy's economic policies, of all things.

So he is "right wing" and openly supports gay marriage and gay adoption? Two issues which Pope Francis fought against as a Cardinal Archbishop & called the work of the Devil.

See, Ben, this is why I don't take you seriously. You're like full speed a-fuckin'-head here, like if you just say it forcefully your argument goes through. This guy also had Bernie Sanders invited to the Vatican, he happily met with Obama, he happily accepts commie crosses given to him by atheists. But oh shit, we know for a fact he drew the line here because the politician supports gay marriage, which the Pope opposes. Sure, gay unions got a vote in Italy and the Pope didn't say a word, nor did he condemn it in the US when it was passed, but absolutely, that's the reason here. Forget the gay marriage shit under Kirchner too, who the Pope happily met with over and over.

If you tell anyone - literally, anyone else - that the Pope is upset at this guy because of his gay marriage support, they'd check if you were serious, then laugh in your face. You may as well have said he's a martian and the Pope doesn't believe martians can be saved. It's as credible.

You left that bit out Crude.

Because it is literally nothing more than a Yakov feverdream. Hey, I know: tell me that -Obama- is totally against gay marriage. Hillary too! Quote them in 2009, man. The quotes are available. Clearly that indicates how they really feel, and ever since then why, it's all just been some wicked right-wing conspirators making things up and misconstruing their words.

I know this post won't see the light of day. But you will see it.

No, this one I'm greenlighting. Because it's that funny, and more importantly: even you have to know how desperate your response is here. Like I said: by your logic, Obama is a hardcore gay marriage opponent. Quote him from 2009. There's the proof. Ever since then he's been misconstrued.

He like you shuts down debate when it becomes too hot for him and he can no longer answer his critics.

Ben, here's a thought.

It may be that when people cut you off, it's not because you're a really, really amazing debater just rocking everyone's world with killer arguments. It may be because you're prone to never letting an issue drop, acting insane, spouting irrelevancies, and more - at length.

This is not the 'I argue with Ben until the Pope dies' blog. I say what I want, at my leisure, and I talk with who I care to. I tend to give people plenty of leeway. I gave you an immense amount. But look at what you offer: 'The Pope dislikes this guy because he supports gay marriage with the Pope detests'. That is, literally, crazy talk. And when I question it, you just get really fucking worked up and more insulting.

You want to comment here? One word: behave, and act with respect. If you can't swing that, if that ain't your 'style', then you're at the mercy of whether I feel like putting up with your bullshit. Don't like it? Get a blog, run it with your own rules. See if I complain.

Crude said...

So I am back? How long before you cut me off again in mid argument or tell me to go fuck myself?

If you don't behave and act respectfully, 'So fast it will make your head spin.'

Let me make this abundantly clear: this is not a 'mission' blog. This blog has no grand purpose. It is, literally, where I go to vent and spout off. It's personal. I treat it like I do a living room I pay for - like a goddamn despot. I said as much when I made it.

As for your link: the gist is that Francis does say a lot of shit which is 'troubling', but we should all be quiet because gawrsh it may cause scandal. I kept my mouth shut for a while, and it's clear that when that happens the Pope and company are gleeful because it means we're that willing to put up with their experiments.

Fuck that. I'll worry about 'causing scandal' when the Pope worries about it. As near as I can tell, outrage and backlash is the only thing keeping his ass in line as much as it is. It is more spiritually dangerous to pretend that this Pope, or his underlings, are right and correct in all they do. At this point it would literally mean staying silent while people fret that their own marriages are invalid because 'the vast majority' are, or unmarried people thinking their relationship is completely moral owing to what this pope said.

Son of Ya'Kov said...



My fevered swamps? This from the guy who compared the Pope's off the cuff remarks to a leading question about Trump from a bias reporter to a deliberate speech made up by Shakespeare? That was not a fevered swamp?

Point remains he promotes gay marriage and gay adoption which the Pope called “Diabolic”. Also according to your own article there is a history of animosity between them. So they are not friends. All this you left out.

Yet I am suppose to take your fevered claim the Pope's off the cuff remarks (which where fair and Trump himself thought wasn’t so bad) are like the deliberate satire and sarcasm of Marc Anthony in Shakespeare A-historic history/tragedy seriously? Seriously?


>This guy also had Bernie Sanders invited to the Vatican.etc.

If the cross had a 666 in it and the guy expressed ill will toward the Pope & was undermining the laws in the Pope's country he might have reconsidered it. He was against the Leftist President of Argentina who promoted gay marriage. Francis didn't like her at all.


> Sure, gay unions got a vote in Italy and the Pope didn't say a word, nor did he condemn it in the US when it was passed, but absolutely, that's the reason here. Forget the gay marriage shit under Kirchner too, who the Pope happily met with over and over.

The Pope didn’t say a word about gay marriage in Italy? Crude stop reading Radtrad sites. Next you are going to tell me England didn't leave the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/23/pope-francis-defends-traditional-marriage-ahead-of-italy-civil-unions-vote


>If you tell anyone -etc.., then laugh in your face.etc,,

I don’t know Crude. I am laughing at you over your “Pope didn’t say a word shit” on gay marriage in Italy claim only because I remember reading in the past that he did. I then went to hunt for the quote.

>use it is literally nothing more than a Yakov feverdream. Hey, I know: tell me that -Obama- is totally against gay marriage. Hillary too! Quote them in 2009, man. etc..

You will note the Pope’s defense of Traditional Marriage in Italy is this year 2016 not 2009.

>It may be that when people cut you off, it's not because you're a really, really amazing debater just rocking everyone's world with killer arguments. It may be because you're prone to never letting an issue drop, acting insane, spouting irrelevancies, and more - at length.

Rather you and I are alike and I am just being Crude to you. This is how you are to others(yes we are bad people) . If there is one difference I am not afraid to fight in forums where I have no hope of winning because my opponent can shut down debate. Are you as brave? I thought you once where. Not so sure anymore.


>This is not the 'I argue with Ben until the Pope dies' blog. I say what I want, at my leisure, and I talk with who I care to. I tend to give people plenty of leeway. I gave you an immense amount. etc..

Actually I wanted to change the subject to the Orlando Shooting after you shut down the last heated exchange & I made that request but you couldn’t resist a dig at Francis. What you didn’t think it would provoke me? Guess again.

>You want to comment here? etc...

Like I said I know this will not see the light of day. But you will see it. That I know. This is the end for us. Well loss of internet friendships is only slightly sad. I never ever meet these people in real life. At least not these days. You can't be too careful. So it is not that bad but I do feel regret it. But what is done is done.

Goodbye Crude. Vote for Daddy.

Son of Ya'Kov said...

OTOH I am not sorry to leave because the fucking word limit is tedious. I hate editing.

Son of Ya'Kov said...

At least you posted my las hurrah. Well Ill give you that Crude.

Crude said...

Point remains he promotes gay marriage and gay adoption which the Pope called “Diabolic”. Also according to your own article there is a history of animosity between them. So they are not friends. All this you left out.

He called it 'diabolic' a while ago. Hillary Clinton and Obama were no fans either around the same time. His attitude has since changed.

If the cross had a 666 in it and the guy expressed ill will toward the Pope & was undermining the laws in the Pope's country he might have reconsidered it. He was against the Leftist President of Argentina who promoted gay marriage. Francis didn't like her at all.


Yeah, you may want to follow that alleged relationship and what has since transpired.

You will note the Pope’s defense of Traditional Marriage in Italy is this year 2016 not 2009.

THen I stand corrected. I will also note that this Pope buddies up with numerous pro-gay-marriage leaders, including Obama. Saying 'He dislikes this guy because of his marriage stance' is bull.

Rather you and I are alike and I am just being Crude to you. This is how you are to others(yes we are bad people) .

Actually, I'm a pretty damn reasonable individual. I am patient with the patient and sincere. But no, I do not suffer bullshit, and enough of it makes me fly off the handle. That's a key difference that you don't seem to get - you see how I act with people who have gone out of their way to piss me off and treat that as my norm. You ignore the times I deal with people I disagree with, but who are calm and fair. I respond in kind.

And actually, I'm not posting around very often, period. I've got other work to do, and frankly I'm more interested in being effective and getting more of an audience than finding blogs to argue on. I am a man on a small blog behind anonymity - bravery was never in the cards. At my best, I make good points.

Like I said I know this will not see the light of day. But you will see it. That I know. This is the end for us. Well loss of internet friendships is only slightly sad.

Here's something else you don't get: I do not hold grudges when people act fair. I keep saying - knock this off. Do so, and watch how quick I respond in kind.