Friday, February 3, 2017

The Gelding of What's Wrong With the World + Other Thoughts

I've been a little busy, so a few comments.

* I see Ed Feser's blog is as great as ever. Just a constant drip of great ideas, explained in ways most people can grasp, and with proper charisma and force behind them. I salute him and all that he does, and I remain intellectually in his debt, likely for the rest of my life.

* What's Wrong With the World, on the other hand, hasn't fared nearly as well. Being frank, they've been gelded, or in the case of their female author, sent to the kitchen. After an entire election of Nevertrump virtue signaling and effective endorsement of Hillary Clinton as the lesser of two evils, they've not only been exposed as dead wrong about a variety of things (SCOTUS nominations included), but they've been reduced to near-silence on political issues across the spectrum. Too proud to admit they were wrong, to say nothing of defeat, all they really have left is taking pot-shots at the alt-right - ineffectively, no less, which is saying something.

I suspect that for them, and for many Christians, if Trump manages to appoint multiple pro-life justices and get Roe v Wade overturned, their first reaction will be to scream in outrage. The very idea that they were wrong is not something they will cop to, or perhaps even contemplate. Ah well.

* Meanwhile, looking over at Dangerous Ideas, my heart aches. Over the years, I've found myself moving in a position from 'Left and Right can put aside their differences in the Church and unite' to 'Actually *some* leftists poison the Church, and we have no common ground to work with'. Little by little, the list expanded. From 'John Shelby Spong sorts' to 'Overt pro-gay Christians cheering at fellow Christians being fined into oblivion by the state' to more to... basically, no one left on the list but Victor Reppert. To glance over and see Victor talking impeachment (and way out of date - that russian conspiracy shit died a while ago in the public mind) just breaks my heart. There are ways to have common ground among disagreeing parties in the Church, but more and more I'm convinced that said 'common ground' doesn't extend across left and right. Ah well.

* Trump, meanwhile, continues to amaze and dazzle, and with luck I'll be dazzled for 8 years. Managed to rather quickly make secessionists and 2nd amendment users out of a number of leftists too - to say nothing of clearly making 'the law of the land' a very optional thing to respect. Keep it up, gents. At this rate, we'll be a United States no more... and I can't say I'd mind a change.

* Last but not least, the transformation of 'Love Trumps Hate' to leftists punching people, rioting, and setting fires when someone so much as tries to give a speech they disagree with, is some grimly amusing shit. That said, it's time to end it - I think defunding any public university with speech codes is a good start. Another good one: when antifas get violent, the police handle them with batons, tasers, and rubber bullets. To the eyes. Also, prison time.

* Bonus Pope Francis commentary: God, save us from this menace. Also, being dead honest: grown men who call the pope 'Papa!' in terms of child-like endearment will never stop coming across to me as the most cringe-inducing faggots. He's not your dad, and you're not his infant, you weirdos.


36 comments:

Ilíon said...

"Also, being dead honest: grown men who call the pope 'Papa!' in terms of child-like endearment will never stop coming across to me as the most cringe-inducing faggots. He's not your dad, and you're not his infant, you weirdos."

What about grown men who call Trump "Daddy" (which usage frequently *is* a "gay thing")? WHat about allegen Christians who call Trump "the God-Emperor"?

Crude said...

What about grown men who call Trump "Daddy" (which usage frequently *is* a "gay thing")?

The only guy I know who does that just ended his Dangerous Faggot Tour so I'm pretty sure he'd agree with me.

WHat about allegen Christians who call Trump "the God-Emperor"?

It's a Warhammer 40k reference and a joke. They also call Mattis the Mad Monk, complete with making funny images of the concept.

The 'papa' schtick is in a different category. It's meant half as some endearing gimmick for a pope who is anything but, and half to show off the speaker as some trusting, devout Catholic, who is likewise typically anything but. Call God-Emperor stuff nerdy or stupid or even sacrilege. I'll disagree, but so what. 'Papa! Papa!' is in a whole other category.

Mike said...

Ilíon,

I'm one of those who makes God-Emperor references. Crude has it entirely right. It's largely just a big, pointed joke at the #nevertrumpers and the left. For example, if I didn't have so many people that could be alienated IRL on Facebook, I was planning to post this on the day of his election:

"Send the call to the provinces, raise the legions and summon the Inquisition. The God-Emperor has ascended the throne and there are heretics to be burned."

And in another case of life imitating The Onion, the black bloc has voluntarily given us many potential "heretics to burn." They are fortunate that they ended up in the hands of the God-Emperor's magistrates, not the legions or the Inquisition.

Mister Jorge said...

What happened to WWwTW? Didn't guys like Zippy Catholic, Feser, Shea, and a bunch of other bigger name posters post there?

Crude said...

Feser quickly left that scene. Zippy, I think, was always comments-oriented. There's some mid-to-larger names there, but key is, they went all in on Nevertrump. Hard. It was pretty rotten.

They still write good articles, but they've been - thus far - kind of scared away from political topics. Think of Glenn Beck's experience, but on a smaller scale.

Mister Jorge said...

There were some good posts there awhile back. I don't follow it much anymore. The more I think about it, wasn't there a big fall out over capital punishment years back?

Crude said...

I'm not sure. Honestly, it's a sad situation. For me the Nevertrump stuff was the last straw, in part because it was not just furious, but utterly detached. I think that was the moment a lot of people (large and small) who saw themselves as 'conservative thought leaders' found out that, no, they actually were not.

I lament it, because I largely agree with the WWWtW crew on a lot. But they're fairly all-in on several political positions that are repugnant, and they brook no quarter regarding them. T

malcolmthecynic said...

Yeah, I think ultimately what happened with WWWtW is that, as academics or allies of academics, they unexpectedly found themselves forced to side with people they either didn't realize or - more likely - didn't want to admit despised them. Hence - if I recall right - the first time they really went off on you is when you mentioned you wanted to take down Academia.

Dr. Feser, - also an academic! - meanwhile, I cannot agree with you about more. Like you, I am intellectually more in his debt than any other writer sans MAYBE C.S. Lewis.

I do think some of the commentary surrounding Francis is over the top, even now, but he's a rotten Pope. I wonder how long we'll have to wait for his canonization after his death? I give it three years.

malcolmthecynic said...

Zippy was an official writer at WWWtW once upon a time but left after, I think, a dispute with Tony. But I may be wrong about the why and they'll be the ones with the details. But Zippy definitely wrote there.

Crude said...

Hence - if I recall right - the first time they really went off on you is when you mentioned you wanted to take down Academia.

Maybe. Lydia was snarky with me before long - I think she just doesn't like dissent, period, that isn't of the groveling kind - but that was part of it. One thing that's funny about the sneering disdain for 'jobs immigrants/people in other countries are better off doing' is that academia is, by and large, a hell of a lot easier to replace in many cases. Technology may someday soon replace truck drivers, etc. But teachers and professors of various types? They're obsolete now. It's just not seen as much due to an artificially sustained (and government-funded!) racket, not to mention good old-fashioned nepotism.

And Feser is an academic, true. But he's also an at least somewhat successful author and lecturer. Not an easy thing to be in his field, and his accomplishments stand on their own. Of course some may point out that he's *snort* not exactly at the forefront of popularity in academia, but I'll just take that as further evidence of just how useless it all is.

I wonder how long we'll have to wait for his canonization after his death? I give it three years.

Maybe. Or maybe we'll have another cadaver synod.

Ilíon said...

"It's a Warhammer 40k reference and a joke. ..."

"I'm one of those who makes God-Emperor references. Crude has it entirely right. It's largely just a big, pointed joke ..."

Is it really a joke a Christian would say?

It's one thing to mock the fawning worship so many leftists exhibited toward Obama; it's quite another thing to engage in fawning worship yourself, even if it's just faux, of an un-Obama.

Mike said...

I think the biggest problem they had was the catch-22 they were in. Lydia is their most prolific contributor and arguably their most valuable. She is also the one who is most likely to be involved in some effort to run off someone she doesn't like--and she very frequently doesn't like anyone who disagrees with her deeply. So they have to choose between "good posts" and not scaring/driving away readers who would comment.

For me, one of the biggest things that caused me to lose most of my respect was the academic/leftist habit of openly ignoring contrary facts and continuing to press one's case. I provided copious examples about Ben Shapiro's character and she ignored them because she wanted everyone to see him as a "nice Jewish boy who says edgy conservative things" not the "half-assed, straight, unfabulous Milo Y clone" that he really is. She still wants us to believe that what David French experienced in election even ranks in the top 100 of effed up things that happened during the election.

Crude said...

Is it really a joke a Christian would say?

Yep.

Granted, Christians will disagree on this - we disagree on a lot. But considering Christians have had no trouble calling - without jesting - various rulers and kings 'Holy' (Holy Roman Emperor, etc), I think a -joke- about the God-Emperor is clearly going to fly.

Mike,

Well, as much as Lydia and I don't get along, I think the particular problem is that they collectively seem to either be, or see themselves as, connected with the National Review wing of conservatism. Free Trade Uber Alles. Russia is our enemy, as is every enemy of Israel. Democrats are the Real Racists. David French's daughter proves that conservatives are the most tolerant, we out-liberal the liberals but are still conservative! Etc.

2016 was the year when a lot of us finally said 'You know actually we disagree with a lot of you people.' to a lot of conservative writers in general. And I mean those of us on the right, who I think until then many of these same bloggers/writers thought 'we shape their opinions!' They don't. At least, not as much as they suspected.

GoldRush Apple said...

I'll admit I was wrong about Trump.

'Love Trump Hate' mantra is the same as 'Love is Love.' Both equally pathetic in its origin of motivation and birth. Next up 'A Boy is a Boy; A Girl is a Girl' for transgenders.

"'Papa!' in terms of child-like endearment will never stop coming across to me as the most cringe-inducing faggots."

In their defense they could view him as a grandfather.

Greg said...

I'm with Ilion here. Yes, the god-emperor label is essentially the alt-right adopting Caesarism ironically in a wink-wink fashion (just as it adopts sorcery "meme magic" and pagan god-worship "kek" ironically), but the Christian response to politics or anything else is to be different from the world "be holy because I am holy*." Instead of approvingly comparing Trump to Caesar, why not liken him to Cyrus the Great or King Josiah?

Regarding WWWtW and other useless academic-types, I'm at the point where I've moved on. I haven't read them since the election so maybe someone can help me. What recent insight have they offered to help the political right? What controversial prediction has been vindicated by recent political events? Needless to say there isn't a writer there with the gift of prophecy. Either way, you can get all that website ever had to offer other places.

There is a temptation among the right to point out leftist hypocrisy/immorality and stop, but now that we have some power it is time to make demands. Merely pointing out that this liberal politician or this activist academic or this leftist media personality said or did something that he claims to oppose does nothing to change anyone's mind. Unless and until these people face appropriate consequences, the left will find it conducive to behave as it has. This cannot be allowed.

Crude has it exactly right--the anarchists rioting in the street should get the fascism they oppose good and hard. Destruction of property, violent attacks on political enemies, blocking traffic, etc. are all criminal acts which attempt to disrupt the social and moral order. Organizing law enforcement to respond to these threats and prosecuting them to the fullest extent is what a legitimate government does with the powers it holds. We, as citizens and taxpayers and lawful, have every right to demand that our government does what is necessary. Let's start demanding more from our local and national leaders.


Crude said...

God emperor doesn't ref Caesar. It's the emperor of the imperium of man in Warhammer 40k. The game where every event would work as the cover of a metal album.

Greg said...

Who do you think the video game character was modeled after?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_cult_(ancient_Rome)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/romans/roman_religion_gallery_06.shtml
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodEmperor

Either way, it's a silly title for Trump even ironically. We aren't Romans and we don't live in a video game universe. These myths do not come close to capturing the Christian narrative about the world nor are they anything close to American traditionalism.



Crude said...

Who do you think the video game character was modeled after?

I think the similarities to Caesar are a bit thin. The God-Emperor is grandiose, and I think between that and the gothic nature of the world, the comparisons come.

And of course they don't come close to that. But they're fun, they're entertaining, and they're just apt enough to lift the spirit. As should be abundantly clear now, a bit of THAT has been lacking.

If we're going to complain about realism, Pepe's a better candidate. He's a damn frog. Funny though.

Crude said...

Anyway, that's a niggling side-argument at best. I will say, if Trump's going to be likened to someone Christian, he's probably a best fit for Constantine.

WWWtW still has some good writing. But, it's a little less useful, less inspiring, less good nowadays. It's saddening. Seeing them endorse a National Review idiot writing about how 'these white communities deserve to die', trying to step around how fucking insulting and unChristian that is, is sickening. Their neocon sympathies, moreso. Watching them try to chide Trump for daring to say that women should be held accountable for their abortions, worst of all.

The left is trying to lionize their radicals. Their violent, thug radicals. Let there be a cost for that. And maybe we need to ignore some radicals of our own while we're at it.

Mike said...

On a Warhammer wiki, I read that the God-Emperor not only isn't an a deity, but that the God-Emperor was a secularist and the entire deification thing was actually a misunderstanding that he did not approve of. There is actually a good deal of irony in the story and commentary on the nature of man.

Crude said...

The God-Emperor was involved with religions in his past, but they kept screwing up and ultimately feeding chaos. He himself was actually the product of some kind of fusing of several souls of the most powerful human shaman/psykers ever, I believe, and he was trying to bring about a hyper-rationalistic/secular/orderly Imperium in the goal of starving the chaos gods out. He also severely underestimated the human need for that kind of wonder, and made some missteps, and a cult just plain rose up around him as a result. Eventually he was not only powerless to stop it, it was the only thing really keeping the empire going at all, I believe. So that's the current situation.

The world of 40k doesn't advance much, and as it stands, the Imperial religion and the God-Emperor thing is a major fixture. But honest to God, the reason Trump's association with that came up was largely because he's both bold and ostentatious. His habit of making big, flashy buildings and having a no-bullshit attitude is parallel enough.

In 40k, 'lesser' gods are certainly real, and they're the exact thing the Emperor is/was trying to oppose.

Ilíon said...

Crude: "But considering Christians have had no trouble calling - without jesting - various rulers and kings 'Holy' (Holy Roman Emperor, etc), ..."

To call a thing 'holy' is no more to call it 'God' than to call a man 'godly' is to call him 'God'. To say that a thing is 'holy' (or, to use the Latinate term, 'sacred') is to say that it is 'set apart' with the implication being that it is set apart of godly purposes.

Crude: "... I think a -joke- about the God-Emperor is clearly going to fly."

So, what -- does God owe Herod Agrippa an apology?

Greg: "... Instead of approvingly comparing Trump to Caesar, why not liken him to Cyrus the Great or King Josiah?"

Other than the fact that those men were righteous-in-their-context and Trump is *not* a righteous man?

Greg: "... nor are they anything close to American traditionalism."

Well, the so-called alt-right is really leftist, of the fascist variety, so "American traditionalism" isn't really gonna be that high on their list.

Crude said...

To call a thing 'holy' is no more to call it 'God' than to call a man 'godly' is to call him 'God'.

Calling mere men 'holy' - mere secular leaders, in fact - when they are not, would seem to incur some wrong. But it didn't, even when the title was quite serious.

No one thinks Trump is G/god, Emperor, or God-Emperor in any literal sense, or even near-literal. It's a joke, and everyone knows it's a joke. May as well be telling me they're blaspheming on the grounds that Kek isn't real either.

You'd come close to having a case if the acknowledgment of even the farcical God-Emperor stuff extended beyond photoshop edits of a fictional character.

So, what -- does God owe Herod Agrippa an apology?

The comparison isn't obvious.

Well, the so-called alt-right is really leftist,

Is this the part of the discussion where we pretend the founding fathers were multiculturalists who valued ethno-religious diversity and free trade?

I don't punch right anymore. I think the alt-right (well, certain individuals in it - it's "diverse", ha ha) gets things wrong. But calling them leftist is just tiring, and smells of fear more than anything. No thanks.

Greg said...

Lol Ilion you say some really dumb things, particularly against someone who spent time defending you.

Trump--three wives and all--is no less righteous than Cyrus or Josiah (look up how Josiah got himself killed). He has repeatedly stood up for Christian lives (what other GOPer has publicly decried persecution of Christians in the Middle-East), defends Christianity as a valid part of our national existence ("We will say 'Merry Christmas' again"), and stood true to his promises on the SC nomination.

And for all the faults of the Alt-Right, to label it "leftist" is to forego any attempt in using objective language. Apparently to Ilion, "leftist" means "anyone I don't like."

Ironically, if anything the best description of the Alt-Right is "anti-leftist" since it is basically a reactionary movement against most if not all of modern-day leftism and the feckless "conservatism" that has failed to withstand it. How strongly the Alt-Right desires American traditionalism may be debatable (although the average Trump voter wants to see it defended), but it certainly is against the anti-traditionalism we see from the Marxist left.

Greg said...

Crude, entertainment value of Trump's titles aside, the point is the Christian right has more to offer than to merely echo what the secular alt-right provides. Holiness means being different, being set apart. I never meant to condemn you for using the term god-emperor, merely I meant to say don't let that be your only conception of Trump.

And I'll have to take your word for it re WWWtW. Should they say anything of value you'll have to pass it along. They've deservedly lost quite a bit of influence due to how poorly they read/reacted to the Trump phenomenon.

Crude said...

Pardon me, Greg, if I'm coming off as very critical or such. I don't mean to be. Years of dealing with idiot atheists has made me seem a bit like a Walking Dead villain. Unintentional.

But it's fine. I've always said - I regard Trump as a lot of good things, but mostly, he's someone I'm supporting because he supports me and mine. He's many things, but holy isn't one. Perhaps he's just doing what he thinks is truly best? What a compliment that would be.

Mike said...

Check this out. The "respectable conservatives" are proving more and more why the alt-right not only will win, but deserves to win.

Crude said...

Poor Kristol. That dude will probably die either as a pariah in his party, or an even more open traitor to it, at which point he'll just be used as an 'I told you so' moment.

By 'poor Kristol' I mean 'fuck Kristol'.

As for the alt-right, I've got my reservations about them. But insofar as they make gains, we can partly blame the left. Knock white people enough, and the world will be sympathetic to whoever defends them. If only the alt-right will, well...

Ilíon said...

"And for all the faults of the Alt-Right, to label it "leftist" is to forego any attempt in using objective language. Apparently to Ilion, "leftist" means "anyone I don't like.""

The so-called alt-right is no more rightist than Il Duce was.

Leftists (*) are people who want to sell their fellows to "society", which is to say, to the handful of people who run the government, so that they can live at the expense of those they sold.

You people never seem to grasp the fact that when you sell your fellows, you end up having sold yourself.

(*) which seems to include you.

Ilíon said...

"Is this the part of the discussion where we pretend the founding fathers were multiculturalists who valued ethno-religious diversity and free trade?"

Beats me. Have we reached the part where you engage in Vox Dayesque misrepresentation of what free trade is and what protectionism is?

Crude said...

Have we reached the part where you engage in Vox Dayesque misrepresentation of what free trade is and what protectionism is?

Hold on now, Ilion. Who's misrepresenting what? I haven't brought up either of those things.

So let's stick with your claim. Let me paste some wikipedia here:

The original United States Naturalization Law of March 26, 1790 (1 Stat. 103) provided the first rules to be followed by the United States in the granting of national citizenship. This law limited naturalization to immigrants who were free white persons of good character. It thus excluded American Indians, indentured servants, slaves, free blacks, and later Asians. It also provided for citizenship for the children of U.S. citizens born abroad, stating that such children "shall be considered as natural born citizens," the only US statute ever to use the term. It specified that the right of citizenship did "not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States."

Alright. Is this a left-wing policy? Note that the price of saying so is, 'Wow, it looks like the founding fathers were a bunch of leftists, at least on this subject.'

Crude said...

The so-called alt-right is no more rightist than Il Duce was.

Paging David French: please pick up the white courtesy phone. David French, please pick up the white courtesy phone...

Mike said...

misrepresentation of what free trade is and what protectionism is?

The W4 crew tried to do the same thing in response to his arguments, which is incredibly precious since as academics they should be keenly aware that trade in services is as valid as trade in goods. Any argument to the contrary is nothing more than "nuh uh cuz nuh uh" masquerading as an argument.

Marc Lüttingen said...

Maybe you should just brand everyone disagreeing with you a hellbound heretic and move on.

That seems the easiest way to go about it.

Crude said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Crude said...

I don't call much of anyone hellbound, Marc. And heretic? Yep, sometimes it's apt.

And WWWtW does good work - they make good arguments at times, for all these mistakes. I give them credit where it's due. The Christian Left? Not so much.